There is a difference between a firm and a democratic student government, guys! This means that you'll have to trade off some efficiency for broader legitimacy. Besides, I find it quite curious that IUB hasn't had a student government so far which hasn't spend substantial amounts of time talking about constitutional issues. Maybe you guys should concentrate on some actual (though, probably less glamorous) problems.

Why, oh why do we need a more bureaucratic student government? Do you guys have an idea of how student unions are organized in other universities? Or are you really more interested in keeping more "power" nobody here really cares about? I know of students here who have achieved more things for the community on their own than all the student government put together.

With all those stupid discussions about the constitution you're losing legitimacy in front of the student body. You spent three weeks discussing this? Come on guys, your perception of self-importance is totally misguided.

And I agree with Prof. Bogaards that financial compensation is a real silly idea, to say the least. In principle (do you know what that means at all?) you're in parliament to work for the community, not personal gain. And the admin gives you preferential treatment during many events anyway, so it's not like you're suffering on your job.

In one or two years you'll graduate and then you can go into real politics and get as corrupt as you want, but please, spare the university of your silly machinations.

Get real people, please.

To add my own 2 cents to this discourse:

- The plan concentrates too much power in a few (un-elected) hands. Instead why doens't each PM have an area of specialization ?
But if these positions were electable, (not just by appointment) then I guess that would be a good compromise.

- The part of the plan suggesting financial or academic credit compensation for any student government member is totally outrageous. STOP IT ! It would never pass a referendum...infact it would only start a lengthy spam war!
Please spare us that.

My concern is not who has the power!!

The only thing I care is that if they are actually doing something. If they keep on talking about who should be more powerful then nothing will ever be accomplished!!

Why not STOY TALKING AND START DOING SOMETHING!!

SHOW US WHAT YOU ARE REALLY CAPABLE OF!!

Money would only provide an incentive to the people you DON'T WANT in the government.

In simpler words: Bullshit.

Dear friends from the government, don't believe that you are the only ones working for the 'community'! Have any of the organizers of:
- Brimun 04, 05
- The Wall, Hair
- IUB Open
- Concerts...
or all the other active contributors ever seen a cent for their effort? Instead, most have faced financial risks, not talking of the certain (!) academic risks.

So honorable MP's, please think before proposing such a ...thing. And don't count on my vote for next term.

"Working?" haha~~ that would be even too much for them. "Talking" would be the right word.

All I saw them do is deciding if they want to give out some money or not. The committees are ones who is really doing all the work.

The RAC, FAC, IAC, etc.

To add to the debate:

Students do not care about the government! (see low turnouts at any kind of elections related to the issue)

Why?

Exactly because of the points mentioned above. People loose trust in their politicians when they have a feeling that nothing is working and that the "elected representatives" do not much besides discussing issues related to bureaucratic or constitutional matters.

Many of the third years - particularly the ones running the biggest clubs on campus have resigned from parliament because work was not done by the PMs but DELEGATED.

Instead of doing it themselves - showing leadership abilities - much of the topics are bureaucratized into committees (see "HaHa"'s comment).

Students want a government!

Yes, we want to be represented because everybody understands that there are many issues that need to be dealt with.

(and now my suggestion)

Students do not care about how many members the parliament has, for how long they are there or in what office under which name the work. They do not care whether the food committee has its name or whether PR is necessary for a student parliament.
If something would be done that really affects students lives. Issues that are really at hand! This is why we have STUDENTS sitting in the STUDENT GOVERNMENT - because everyone believes that we STUDENTS KNOW best what STUDENTS need!

Student government should therefore assign a particular task to a member or a group and push these issues through. Showing their ability, dedication and contribution to a particular topic .

Some issues that could be "central issues" for a respected representation:
- some productive steps towards USC issue (abolishion, change of policy ??)
- more pass options on "other school" electives?
- more professors
- tenureship, because we students do not want the best ones to leave us because IUB does not do anything (this summer at least 3 of the best Humanities Profs will leave)
- money distribution to the clubs
- sport facilities
- club structure (like the liason, which started already); e.V.
...
(before I get hatemails - I was a member of the Think Tank last year)


Lastly,
At the moment it seems that we are stuck in a vicious cycle. The student body thinks bad of the parliament. The few ones that ran for office get in but - understandably - are not motivated because nobody supports them or acknowledges their work. This in turn results in a low turnout of REALLY IMPORTANT issues. Because: who would sacrifice academic and free time for an parliament when no positive feedback comes from your peers. This in turn leads to "nothing important done" - i.e. student body complains about the parliament...

Solution:
Take on some really important issues that concern a majority of students. Show your abilities and push them through - accomplish something visible to the students. Then the students will recognize it and parliament will gain in reputation.

Sounds easier than it actually is! But IUB needs you!

Very nicely said Gero, the only point which I would like to further comment on is the payment issue. Guys in the parliament, even if you manage to implement this stupid idea that you have, I must say that the people that do the whole work in the committees should be paid as well or you think you are the most efficient and important people in the government. And above all you are in the government, because as many of you say, you really want to do this job. So please don't further prove the fact that many of you simply want the section "member of the student government" in their CV and want to work for themselves. Claiming that the wages will guarantee the efficiency of the parliament is simply a proof of how unsure you are in yourselves. You don't believe in yourselves and hope that the money will make you work efficiently hahahaha. You just destroyed the whole idea of the student government. No vote for the next elections from me too, or at least no vote for Dimitar, Adina, Tadas and Rytis (cos' I live in C3).

Hi all,

Normally, I wouldn't comment on an article like this, for the simple reason that people like talking even when having no clue. This is different, however, as Gero is very experienced. No offense to anyone else, but except for a few individuals, you are not worthty to be given a response - since you don't even state who you are and stand up to your position.

Anyway, to the point. First, the 3-week discussion thing - discussions were done OUTSIDE Parliament meetings. No precious official time was wasted..

Second, on the issue of efficiency that Gero hinted towards. One, in my opinion, very bad way to deal with this problem is money. As some of you nicely mentioned already, this is an idea that won't make it for sure. Nevertheless, talking about conspiracy, machinations, or even corruption.... Too many movies I'd say. This proposal comes with a single thing in mind - improving the work of the Government (whether it is good or bad is another issue). The point is, however, that the proposal is being discussed and was put forward in the first place exactly because of the lack of legitimacy. We want a strong and active student body that not simply recognizes but supports the Government. And we'll work hard to get it. Trust me.

All comments about concentation of power and money in my view are valid.. And if I were you I wouldn't worry about this proposal that much.

About the delegation of work - we are working on that and we will resolve it.

Now, to conclude, I'd like to mention something important. The Government will change. We understand the problems. We'll do our best to solve them. I hope that you all work together with us.

To Lucas, Fred, and !!! - I wouldn't worry about the money issue. There is a very strong opposition to the proposal from the beginning (myself included), since in my view it destroys the democratic principle to say the least. Therefore, we will most likely spare you "the trouble".

To Axel - yes, indeed, we are finishing finally with this and moving to more important issues. But let's not forget that in such fundamental discussions things like what is really important are born (believe it or not).

I think I answered all that I wanted to asnwer.

Thanks all for the comments. It feels great to see that people actually care about the whole issue. The Government is relying on your active involvement!

In Psychology there is this interesting concept of extrinsic (eg money, other external rewards)and intrinsic (ie doing something just for the sake of it) motivation. It has been proved by many, many experiments that intrinsic motivation works much better than extrinsic motivation!

Thanks Deyan for some constructive remarks from within the Parliament. I'd however like to say that implementing the current proposal is not quite finishing off the process of constitution building, but starting it completely anew. This would be a throwback of at least 2 years. So, I hope you guys continue improving the old structure, and send the new proposal to where it belongs (the trashbin). The sooner the better, so that you limit the PR desaster you're currently in (despite task force...).

Yes, indeed Axel, that is what I for one plan to push for. More PR, more connection to the students, more concentration on important things (for the students that is), and definitely not starting anew the whole procedure.

To conclude, the most likely outcome is that simply the old (current) structure will be improved. I still hope, however, that the whole Parliament can agree on this, since a split within the Parliament is not a good thing either in my eyes.

The issue of money allocation: Even though all the points don't concern the current members directly, I'd like to mention where some of the money (correct me if some of this money is from elsewhere and not direct student government money) over the past few years has (and still will) go to: Funding parties, because "we have the money, so why not spend it", funding students to go to christian conferences or pilgrim paths (el camino de santiago) - a big waste of money and disgrace to the former parliamentarians in my opinion, bearing in mind that religion and faith are personal issues and money allocated for the student body (consisting of all walks of life and faith) is given to an exclusive group's interests. (for that matter, i'm even surprised we have a club such as the christian fellowship - back home a muslim's society in a university would be ridiculous). what's left of the rest of the money goes to repair costs of things vandalized by a few people. i had to defend the music club's proposal to buy new equipment last year and had replies such as "do you really need this", "can't we give you half of it" etc. whereas at the end of the year the same parliament was asking the community for ideas to spend the money which was surplus. the same thing happened to the radioclub, and they had major problems getting the basic equipment to operate.

(continuing...)
i want to ask one question:
the budget for the wall last year was around 700 euros. now imagine the thousands the parliament has. what happens to this money, and what could be done if such a thing as the wall was carried out for 700? i hear numbers in excess of 6000 for hair this year. (i happen to know that only about 800 of this money comes from the parliament - but still: if they already have 5000+, why do they need the extra 800 for?) I just want to point out with these examples that the allocation of parliament money (for clubs or otherwise) is not objective, and parliamentarians so far have no just way to decide on this. a majority vote is enough, and no justification is needed. if we're lucky we get an apologee afterwards that it was a mistake, but that's about it. congratulations to the people who managed to finish it

Dear All,

First of all - the above article and discussion depict in a very interesting manner the process of scandal creation. The process very common even on countries' level, involving journalists - who pick up only some issues, leaving out the other ones and then coming up to the public opinion, which is obviously outraged (presented with overblown and spicy extremes)- everything due to misinformation or partial information.

Now to the point: I would again like to repeat after Deyan. The Parliament has been working on improving it's EFFICIENCY (also through improving its structure) during extended sessions on Sunday evenings! During regular meetings the structure proposal has barely been discussed. Therefore, concerns that the Parliament is again only working on improving it's structure are out of place.
As for the proposal on changing the structure itself (it's not even a proposal as pointed out by prof. Bogaards). Adina, Bilyana, Tadas, Rytis and Dimitar did a good job devoting a lot of their time to identifying problems and finding solutions. We should keep in mind that every new suggestion has positive and negative sides to it. Now there is time to discuss these points in the Parliament, make a decision and proceed with current work benefiting from new improvements in the structure as soon as possible.

Finally - Many of you are asking: why did it take so long (3 weeks)?
There is a very simple answer: we - the Parliamentarians - have more important, urgent matters concerning Students directly! To give an example: first aid courses and first aid kits on campus, English language/writing courses, Internet speed, events in the IRC and why students are not informed, changing all-you-can-eat system, turnstiles in the serveries etc. etc. etc. Therefore, we decided that structural issues are not so urgent and that we should concentrate more on current problems.
I hope it's all more clear now

Maria Kordonowska Y
our Mercator College MP

So now it's the media's fault?! I'd rather say the fact of the matter is that five parlamentarians came up with a preposterous proposal to abolish our current constitution and that the parliament debated it one entire session and will most likely devote one more to it. Nothing more, nothing less. And if the Pulse reports about that, this is entirely legitimate. And so are the concerns voiced by your voters. This is why I'd be a bit more careful with the 'lack of understanding'-argument. Looks always pretty bad on elected officeholders (even when it's correct).

Finally - Many of you are asking: why did it take so long (3 weeks)?
There is a very simple answer: we - the Parliamentarians - have more important, urgent matters concerning Students directly! To give an example: first aid courses and first aid kits on campus, English language/writing courses, Internet speed, events in the IRC and why students are not informed, changing all-you-can-eat system, turnstiles in the serveries etc. etc. etc. Therefore, we decided that structural issues are not so urgent and that we should concentrate more on current problems.
I hope it's all more clear now

Maria Kordonowska Y
our Mercator College MP

The Real Question We Are Asking is:

What Has Been Done???

so what's gonna happen with the internet speed? will it decrease with the last 10kb/s (in the evenings)?

I need that left-handed guitar now!
Its unfair that IUB doesnt have any left-handed guitars!